Winston Smith :>D

Joined

• started 57 topics
• posted 1,262 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Winston Smith :>D

• 
  16

  Christianity Today Mag- 32% of JW's leave

  by jst2laws in

  1. social
  2. current

  jehovah's witnesses are identified as the most "mobile" religious group in the us.

  this is based on the percentage of members who convert to, as well as the percentage that leave.

  jw's have the highest percentage in both catagories.. http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/2003/003/19.7.html.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  Funny how JW's and SDV just can't seem to seperate themselves after all these years.

  shotgun

  I too thought that was a notable stat.

  Russel would be proud

  Winston.
• 
  23

  Elder's Visit -- What do you say

  by CaptK in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been d'f for over a year and two elders came by to see me for a breif visit.

  what do you say when they arrive ?

  are they making an inspection of your place of residence or you ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  Hey CaptK,

  Welcome.

  Before I could really give advice, I have to ask what your intentions are.

  Do you want to rejoin the org, or do you want nothing to do w/the WTS?

  AFAIK, elders are supposed to touch base with DF'd folk living in the territory to see if they want to come back to the org. every year unless the DF'd person instructs them otherwise. Most don't though.

  The rate of growth is down in the WTS, especially in the USA, so they are scraping around looking to reactivate potential members.

  Winston.
• 
  16

  Propaganda and the WTS

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  propaganda and blatant liar can often be seen sharing a beer together in the local pub.

  the observer can differentiate them quite easily as at the end of the evening propaganda stabs blatant liar in the back and steals his underwear.

  the common element that bonds these two characters in this uneasy friendship is an agenda that recognizes that matters cannot be presented to a person or group without needing to adjust or manipulate the facts to serve their own ambitions.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  HS,

  A very well written post. Thank you.

  I’ve wanted to comment on that very WT article. I’m glad you did it for me. IMHO, this quote is another great example of the WTS’ propaganda machine in action:

  Propagandists often use the word like "sect" to stigmatize others. In a recommendation to the Parliamentary Assembly Of The Council Of Europe, a suggestion was made that the authorities who investigate new religious groups "would be well advised to forgo using this term

  Who made the suggestion? What authority on ‘cults’ approached the PACE with this recommendation that helps the WTS cause?

  The reader of the article is led to believe that someone else besides the WTS approached the PACE with this suggestion about cults. An authority who echoes the WTS cause. An authority that Jehover is maneuvering like a puppet to help His Earthly Organization’s cause.

  ~

  With the authority never being identified, that’s what the reader is left to conclude.

  But the reality of the matter is that the WTS is pleading the PACE themselves, but that is never said. And what is left unsaid and left for the reader to then assume is the one of the highest crimes that is committed on the victim reader of the article.

  The WTS is an expert at this type of propaganda.

  Quotes are cited without any references. And the reader is left to assume the goodwill and intent of the WTS.

  ~

  The WTS articles are written is such a way not unlike a person running through a marathon race through a major city.

  You run here, then you run over there, then over to the next street. And along the way you are handed glasses to drink of what you assume are filled with water.

  But the WTS is really slipping you water mixed with alcohol. Oh, at first you get the water straight up. But eventually alcohol starts to be slipped in. And each glass farther along the race has less and less water and more and more alcohol. By the end, you look back in a drunken stupor not knowing what happened.

  You never realize that you were being slipped Mickey Finn’s all along.

  ~

  This type of BS propaganda is the first reason I starting Q’ing the WTS. I believed everything they wrote. Not until I started to smell the propaganda did I realize that I’ve been slipped Mickeys all along.

  The WTS starts off with some credible sounding info, but then switches gears and starts inserting half-truths. By the end of an article, the WTS is stating complete lies based on the previously mentioned half-truths.

  It makes me sick.

  ~

  HS, keep us posted on this. And Caspian too. I want to see the WTS called the Spade as they really are.

  Winston.
• 
  92

  I WANT REVENGE!!!!!

  by worldlygirl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, it has finally happened.

  my jw husband came home last week and told me he is moving out.

  it seems he has been talking to the elders, and they feel his spirituality is being threatened (even though i have not insisted he stop going to meetings, i won't allow any jw material in my home because of my children from a previous marriage - i don't want them exposed to it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  WG, I’m sorry for the pain you are going through right now. When someone pains you like this, I can understand how fun it can be thinking of revenge. I myself have thought of similar plots for revenge against those in the WTS who have caused me pain, but I always thought I was being a bit ‘3v1l’

  But OMG! Mary, you know I love you and that we are the best of buds, right?

  Many of the ideas mentioned are harmless and certainly would be a source of glee knowing you are being a thorn in the side.

  With that being said, I have to echo Ravyn’s words say that you make sure that your first intent with a pending divorce is to make sure you guard your kids, finances, and assets. Any revenge that may put the above at jeopardy, while emotionally may be fulfilling for a while, I feel in the long run would be regretted if it blows up in your face in court.

  JW’s think that we want to do nothing more than exact pain on the dubs. Going on a full-scale offensive will only feed into that Dub mentality and firm their belief that ‘Satan is attacking them’.

  Personally, I think sometimes the best way to get revenge is to do the very opposite of what your enemies would expect.

  A boyfriend/girlfriend breaks up with you and they expect that you’ll be dragging your sorry arse around moping about your loss? Make sure they see you happy, and having the time of your life without them in your life anymore.

  Get fired from a job? Go work for a competitor and out do them in their own market.

  Even young children do this to their parents.

  Spank them and you expect them to cry? How does a parent feel when they gleefully say, “That didn’t hurt!”

  And when you are living even better than before, don’t gloat about it. Act cool and collected because having things go great in your life is now second nature to you without that other party involved in your life anymore.

  It may take more restraint planning or be less fun to go about it this way. But IMHO, it is far more devastating.

  People who now think that you have gone ‘apostate’ will now expect you to be out of control. You know, 2 Ti 3: 1-5.

  But how enraged do JW’s get when they see that an ‘apostate’ goes on to lead a normal, even happier life than before they were a JW?

  It infuriates them. They don’t understand it.

  So go to the KH once in a while and show them how ‘normal’ you are and put a monkey wrench in everyone’s concept of the ‘evil apostates’. Smile, laugh, shake hands and talk. And it will put your hubby in a bind trying to prove how evil you are. Don’t go back and beat your former brothers because that’s exactly what they expect.

  I think there is truth to the saying, “keep your friends close, but your enemies even closer.”

  But above else, make sure to guard your children and assets. You don’t want to do anything to put that at risk in a court of law.

  WG, I hope you come through this smelling like a rose.

  My $0.02

  Best wishes,

  Winston.
• 
  3

  MAY 1ST,2002 page 30,31.QFR'S.The Great Crowd is in the Sanctuary!

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this article addresses the question:when john saw the 'great crowd'rendering sacred service in jehovah's temple,in which part of the temple were they doing this?rev.7:9--15.

  anyone remember this article and the conclusions drawn from it.it is crucial to understand this doctrine,as it affects millions of jw's of the rank and file who are not aware of this doctrinal shift.

  blueblades

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  I remember reading it while on the my 'earthly throne'. [The best place to read WTS literature ]

  I read it once.

  *Paused*

  Then asked, WTF?

  Reread again.

  *Paused*

  Asked, "Where the hell do they get this stuff from?"

  Then like a good dubby I dismissed the 'new light' as quickly as the next flush.

  Reresh my memory. What did the article say again?

  Winston.
• 
  10

  my regret getting baptised/ your opinion from former jw's

  by the mole in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ***the mole**** i had a discussion with a friend about some things the org covered up.

  starting with a calm subject about her and her husband being tricked with a fraudulent scheme for buying discount gas and that several witness were duped and lost alot a money.

  i advised that the da's office found it difficult to prosecute because witness' believe not suing each other.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  mole,

  First off, I’m still ‘in’ purely for my wife’s sake; going to all of the meetings, but no FS or commenting. So I have some insight from the congregational side.

  Opinions & diagnosis?

  Tell you what. After I read your first post in this thread, I thought you took it too far. Ask a Q or at best maybe two that puts a doubt in a Dub’s mind about the authority of the WTS.

  When you said this:

  i told her that it is christ to mediate between man and god not an org then she hung up on me

  mole

  then the line was definitely crossed.

  Please keep in mind, The WTS = Jehovah God.

  You even bring up the simplest question RE the WTS’ authority, you have just questioned Jehovah. In fact, you don’t love Jehovah anymore. You despise everything that Jehovah has given you and have no regard on how Jehovah has protected you from the evil world while in the WTS fold.

  i slipped though. i told her i didnt think the org was the true org to lead mankind to perfection that is when she snapped.

  mole

  my friend called me back and told me she wanted to know were i stood with jehovah...i told her i believe in god and christ but i had questions on the org giving correct info

  mole

  WAY TOO FAR!!!

  Even the most brain dead JW will catch this on their ‘apostate radar’.

  mole, if you are at all interested staying underground and keeping your identity a secret, you better do three things:

  1. back-peddle
  2. deny
  3. lie

  Repeat steps 1 - 3 as needed.

  Don’t’ get me wrong; you brought up some great points. But if keeping your name in ‘good standing’ with the congregation and borganization is important to you, then you gotta start kissing some major ass ASAP. It’s time to go into ‘full spin control’ and ‘damage control mode’ ASAP.

  If you are at all interested in doing some damage control, I would advise the following:

  • Call your friend up and apologize.
  • Ask her for her understanding and any suggestions that she may have [let her feel that she has helped you]
  • Say you are going through a tough time now [make up any story you see fit or cite a current tough issue you are facing now]
  • Lie and say you didn’t mean what you said and that the WTS has all of the answers and is the only true religion.

  If anyone calls [elders, etc] deny, spin; say your words were taken out of context.

  Use the WTS’ own ‘two witness rule’ and deny anything that was claimed to have been said that was damaging coming from your mouth. If an elder wants to get together with you, GLADLY accept their help and meet with them. Get ready to bite your tongue for an hour or two, do a lot of ‘yes’ head nodding, and thank them for getting to the bottom of any possible slander in the congregation. If they give you ‘homework’ to look up [articles to read from the WT], scan it over and then at the next meeting tell them you did your homework and cite a sentence or two.

  Of course if you are not interested in saving your ‘good standing’ in the borganization, then I guess you must have subconsciously wanted to be flushed out from the underground and showed your hand to this ‘sister’.

  Hey, at least you had the chance to plant doubts in one JW’s mind before you were flushed out!

  Best of luck,

  Winston.
• 
  66

  Non-believers......... Do they "bash" Believers too hard?

  by gumby in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been beginning to wonder if those that have come to disbelieve in the bible as god's word, and those who believe in no god at all............use the wrong verbage here.

  is it disrespectful to those who believe.... for non-believers to say things against what believers hold so precious?

  many have moved on, or..... mentioned they do not post their true feeling here on certain subjects for fear they will be harrassed by others here.. first off....i'll admit i'm a guilty one for doing this very thing but have been wondering if i'm out of line as well as others who post similar ideas in the same type of manner.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  Educational thread. Good arguments to ruminate on.

  Winston.
• 
  37

  Cancer tests came back 'normal'

  by Ravyn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so that is a major relief.

  still means they don't know what the problem is, but cancer was one of my worst fears.. tomorrow (wednesday, august 27th) is the arbitration in that stupid lawsuit and it will determine the next 20 years of our lives.

  mars, the new moon, my energies are pretty scattered right now and i am just trying to get thru it an hour at a time.. thank you for all the support you have given me thus far and what you will continue to give.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  Ravyn,

  I’m glad to hear that it’s not cancer. One less thing to worry about.

  That frivolous lawsuit sounds emotionally and financially draining. I’d say it would be ok, but my faith in the justice system is about as high as my confidence in the WTS, sorry.

  And people like that really PISS me off! Things like that make me wish we could revert to the way of the Wild West!

  Winston.
• 
  42

  Marrying Young

  by Descender in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  something has been bothering me as of late.

  my younger brother, who is 17 years old plans on getting married right after he turns 18 this upcoming year.

  i have quite a few problems with this, but he thinks that he knows it all at his age.. i'm concerned for several reasons.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  Descender,

  You sound like a good, older brother to me. And you should be worried. Very worried.

  What we have here are the perfect makings for a ‘Recipe for Disaster”.

  Hummm, let’s see. We have:

  · No HS diploma
  · No GED
  · No social skills
  · No friends
  · No money
  · No professional skills
  · No job
  · No ambition to find a job
  · No patience to wait till he’s got his life in order before he gets married
  · He can already see some flaws in the WTS
  · Marrying into a multi-generational, J Double-you fam
  · She makes less than $20 K/yr.
  · She has a bunch of friends who are married and she feels left out
  · I’m guessing the maturity levels of both are still in need of development.

  Now add the above ingredients with:
  · No job
  · No money to pay bills
  · Jehovah ‘forgets’ to ‘add all these other things to you’ and they start defaulting on bills
  · Sex not like they see in movies
  · Tension
  · Finger pointing
  · Arguing
  · Family starts taking sides

  For the final touches we can add:

  · Pregnancy
  · No health insurance
  · Car breaks down
  · She loses her job
  · They move in with the parents
  · He starts doubting WTS
  · She thinks he is the debil
  · Her family hates him

  Brew for 3 – 5 years. Let simmer for another year.

  And we now have the perfect recipe for a divorce before he hits 25.

  If I were you, I’d pull every stop out to bring him to his senses. Do anything to make sure he doesn’t get married yet.

  Get him to go to at least a Tech School.

  Encourage him from the Bible to wait 7 years like Jacob did for Rebecca [really 14, but hey, who’s counting?].

  Hell, encourage him to Reg Pio for a year to get to Reg Pio school before marrying.

  And if that doesn’t work, take him to a strip club and down the road to getting DF’d.

  Get him to do anything but get married with these odds stacked against him.

  OK, maybe a few of those suggestions are tongue in cheek, but this is rather serious.

  My wife and I love each other very much and are doing pretty well now, but we had a lot more going for us than these two have. And you know what? It still was tough at times.

  I can’t imagine walking into a marriage with these cards in my hand. There is no way I could imagine my wife & I still being married if I had your brother’s hand.

  It’s a classic JW, ‘Recipe for Disaster’.

  Sorry, but that’s my grim look at it. Best of luck.

  Winston.
• 
  13

  My Personal Story

  by Disheartened in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i joined this forum a few months back and i'm just getting around to giving my personal story.

  here goes: i was raised as a witness like many of you out there.

  my mother was in the truth lie but my father was not.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Winston Smith :>D

  Disheartened,

  Welcome, and thank you for sharing your story.

  It takes a secure and strong person to take the route that you have taken. It’s frustrating trying to accommodate the elder’s wishes and try to ‘tow the company line’, only to have more of your ‘faults’ brought out. You gave it a go, and yet you could never fully please them. Typical ‘you must do more’ attitude.

  I am coming to the conclusion that people who are freethinking, confident and have something to offer the ‘world’ scare the weak men running the WTS.

  And the women of the organization who fall in line for these little men’s approval are just as weak themselves. It’s an organization of weak people trying to fill their egos or to gain acceptance from others because they can’t accept themselves.

  At first I thought you might be someone I know because your story is so familiar. But, wrong state.

  I’ve a couple of female friends in the borg who were given the same treatment. They are intelligent, charismatic, pretty, and have a lot to offer. And it scared the weak men, and their weak [and usually no where near as fetching] wives. The congregation men looked for the smallest of faults [‘trendy dress’, comments, etc] and then pecked away at them to bring them into submission.

  I had one elder complain to some in field service that my friend should be commenting at the WT because she was a Reg Pio. Hey, it scared her; she was faithfully Reg Pio’ing when no one else in her family was, give her a break! It hurt her so bad that this elder, one who she considered a good friend, couldn’t try encouraging her face to face, but rather had to talk to everyone else behind her back questioning her spirituality. She cried when she found out what this elder had said about her.

  Like I said, weak men.

  You’re in the right place. Be ‘Heartened’ that you can let your true-self shine here.

  Winston.